Ben: Since our readers at Harmonica Ramblings are more likely to know Bill, I wanted to start with you Scot and ask you a few questions about your musical journey. When did you decide to make a living out of music ?
Scot: I've been playing gigs since I was 14 years old, so at least since then. Also my eldest sister is a professional pianist so I had that to look to as an influence.
Ben: There's a difference between playing gigs and making a living out of it though. When did that become a choice of life ?
Bill: It's a difficult question ,but a good one! You find yourself at some point making enough money to quit your record store job without ever having made a specific decision…
Scot: I had pretty much made that choice by the time I was 14. Even earlier than that I had found in music an essential outlet.
Ben: I understand that guitar was not your main instrument back then ?
Scot: I started on piano and trumpet... and moved to trombone at about age 13.
Ben: What kind of music were you playing back then ?
Scot: I was all over the place... Dixieland, big band, then reggae and blues and funk. All over the northwest region for years... I graduated from highschool early to go on the road with the Glenn Miller Revival band of all things!
Ben: Didn't get abducted by aliens, though!
Scot: Very close actually...
Bill: Considering Glenn Miller was an alien…
Scot: All the cats in the band were 10 to 20 years older than me and living the road myth in a hard way... It was trial by fire, but also an amazing education. And some of these guys could really play... they pushed me forward in some good ways.
Ben: I understand the trombone allowed you to travel more or less all 'round the world too ?
Scot: Yes, especially in the last 10 years... I thinked I've played in a dozen countries. A lot of it with Brian Setzer of the Stray Cats, but also some with progressive jazz groups like Vinny Golia's.
Ben: When did you decide you needed or wanted a change of living ?
Scot:
You mean out of the road life? Ah well... that could take at least a
couple evenings over some good wine to relate... I live in a remote
place now and I am finding the balance of travel and performing mixed
with a kind of back to the land and grow our own food thing! It allows
me to focus on the music I really care about, instead of the glossy
'entertainment' motivated work I was doing sometimes.
Bill: I don't think that's a fair assessment of what Scot was doing in Los Angeles. You were also gigging with Francisco Aguabello, the Muddy Waters of Cuban music and doing everything from free jazz to Chinese funeral dirges!
Scot: That’s true, Bill. I certainly don't mean to gloss over it all. Especially the absolutely amazing experimental music scene in LA...
Ben: But I imagine that you had to do the glitzy stuff to allow you to do the interesting stuff?
Scot: Exactly!
Ben: How about your change of instruments, then ?
Scot: I've been playing non-fixed pitch instruments my whole life so the switch to slide guitar from trombone was a rather natural one...
Ben: When you say it was 'natural', what attracted you to slide guitar in the first place?
Scot: A zillion recordings, delta blues, sitar... Then on a trek to India my wife and I picked up a bunch of tapes of Vishwa Bhatt
and I started transcribing some of that and initially playing it on
trombone... At some point I bought a cheap guitar and in the first two
months I lifted the entire soundtrack to Paris, Texas by Ry Cooder...
It was all over after that. I started transferring my trombone brain
onto guitar... reading classical and jazz trombone etudes on slide
guitar and such!
Ben: Were you ever worried that you'd have to rebuild a whole reputation on a new instrument?
Scot: That’s a good question! Some musicians I played a lot with were pretty sceptical at first... not to mention reviewers that had followed my work... Actually M. Barrett is the main cat who stuck with me through the switch... Now I’m doing some other great projects with people I used to play trombone with. One is a project called Teetot by über-bassist Steuart Liebig. And a lot of the critics that followed my jazz trombone days are huge supporters of Gutpuppet... which is nice to see!
Ben: You two used to play together back in your trombone days ?
Bill: Circle of Willis… one of my best bands! We also had a duo that used a lot of effects and loops. I played harmonica and some bird calls and Scot also played didgeridoo that he kicked butt on! Scot is also an awesome tuba player. You should hear Kingcake!
Scot: Circle of Willis is still one of my favourite records!
Ben: Can you tell us a little more about your solo project Rûmi, where that came from…
Scot: Rûmi was really an interesting personal process for me... My wife was away in Africa for a couple of months, and I focused in on the Rûmi project... The aim was to try and translate into sound the Rûmi quotes I used as titles... The process of doing that took me into some textural spaces and odd tunings I had spent the previous year listening to a whole range of guitarists: Paul Metzger, Shawn Persinger, Steffen Basho Junghans, a lot of Ralph Towner, Debashish Bhattacharya and John Fahey, so in a way I was melding what I had processed that way also.
I hadn't even planned to release it... But the few people I sent it to really flipped so I decide to put it out there. And I'm glad I did...
One other thing about it: an amazing poet I knew years ago – his name is Joel Long, and one of his published books is called Winged Insects - got a hold of a copy and composed a cycle of poems inspired by the guitar pieces and the Rûmi titles... He managed to book us some shows/readings in the spring where we will perform spoken work/slide guitar duo versions of his poems with the related Rûmi slide guitar pieces improvised/interwoven with the spoken word.
Ben: That sounds very cool ! Actually that raises a question : how much of the pieces in Rûmi is written and how much (if any) is improvised?
Scot: Oh, a lot is improvised... I approached it in the vague sense of an Indian raga: with composed thematic material in several sections that I would treat as intro, theme, development, extrapolation, revisiting theme, outro... That kind of loose structure. Then I just get in the space, find the flow... and improvise with it!
Ben: Cool. OK, let's turn to Bill now! You made your name playing mostly hard-hitting raucous swing jazz with Brother Weasel and your own Quartet and Quintet... But it seems that for the last few years you've taken a different or new approach to your music, or perhaps to your instrument and how it relates to the music you want to play. Would that be correct ?
Bill: You could say that, but it’s an ongoing process actually. I always try to evolve as a player.
Scot: Bill, there's a quantum leap in your process somewhere though... You started incorporating everything from shehnai to shackuhachi to multiphonic techniques...
Ben: Boy, am I gonna have to look some things up! Could you tell us then what the current direction is and maybe where the impetus came from?
Bill: Improvisation. I'm more into a real conversation than one that has prepared responses. It seems like a lot of so-called jazz and blues improvisation consists of learned phrases. It would be as though you had prepared questions and I had prepared answers or witty quotes from Oscar Wilde and Mark Twain as opposed to what just occurred to me at the moment. I had the opportunity in the last ten years to play with some brilliant musicians: in particular, Wayne Peet, Steuart Liebig, and Scot here.
Ben: Yet you work on a lot of source material! You play acoustic a lot more as well! These changes come from somewhere, I would imagine?
Bill: I've always played a great deal of acoustic music. I probably perform more acoustic than amplified. It's just that when I got an opportunity to put records out, I wanted to do something that was different. I wanted to play blues the way I heard it, on the chromatic harmonica and through a Fender amplifier.
Ben: It's true that you release a lot of records, work in a lot of bands, so I imagine there's space for variety of approaches and material there...
Bill: Absolutely. There is room for more approaches to the instrument than I have time in the day and that's considering only the vast ground that Gutpuppet covers. One aspect of my harmonica playing I've been working hard on since the inception of Gutpuppet is to be a better accompanyist. That has required stealing liberally from many instruments.
Ben: Such as ?
Bill: Banjo. I've written over 100 etudes modelled on banjo rolls from Earl Scruggs.
I've taken those basic rolls and I'm working on being able to play them
more fluidly. I’ve stolen Balkan Rhythms, and concepts from minimalism
like "pattern/pulse" as well. I've also transcribed and arranged around
200 pieces from the classical guitar repertoire for harmonica. My
biggest source of inspiration though has to be accordion. A lot of what
you hear on Gutpuppet 2 and 3 was inspired by my favourite accordion
players: Petar Ralchev, Francisco Ulloa, Gus Viseur…
Ben: Okay, so chromatic harmonica as a backing instrument: would be a fair way of describing the directions you're working towards? (No to suggest that you don't play lead also!)
Bill: It would be a fair way of describing one major facet I'm always working on. I'm also interested in a lot of things having to do with a more melodic/lead roles.
Ben: Okay, so I understand that you guys go way back, but what decided you to start the Gutpuppet project?
Bill: Scot invited me to play on a Kingcake record. I did a few gigs with them. Scot was on tuba back then. He was looking for a slide player to start a new group. The group ended up being called Gruel. We auditioned a dozen slide players and decided on the amazing Paul Laques. As it turned out we only played a couple of gigs and Scot started playing slide. We were also doing the Circle of Willis with Scot on bone and the aforementioned crushmaster Wayne Peet on piano. It was a trio that featured a great deal of modal improvisation. I like to say that Gutpuppet is the bastard child of "COW and gruel"!
Scot: Coming out of the modal world of Bill’s group Circle of Willis I suggested we try some harp and slide guitar excursions. We basically started with some deconstruction of the basic blues and bluegrass idioms run through the mill of an avant-garde free jazz frame work...
Bill: The process of course is done in a controlled environment that includes burning a lot of nag champa and gallons of gin and tonic.
Scot: The material has grown and evolved into a larger and more focused amalgam of world music styles used in a rather unconventional sense as improvisational platforms.
Ben: There have been three Gutpuppet albums so far, I understand that you guys cut them in relatively short sessions?
Scot: We do, and in fact, Gutpuppet 4 is in the can, to be released later this year.
Ben: So what's a typical Gutpuppet album, from conception to release? Who writes what?
Bill: The last two records have consisted of Scot writing a lot of great tunes, sending them to me a few months in advance. I promise to return the favour, but I usually break my promise and write only 1 or 2 tunes...
Scot: I've composed the majority of the tunes, but that said Bill extrapolates on the melodic material and morphs and expands its harmonica (and harmonic) possibilities into realms that re-direct and essentially contribute to the formation of the final space.
Ben: Listening to the records, it seems like the improvised sections go way beyond classic jazz improv’, with both of you improvising at the same time and yet staying together. How do you do it?
Bill: Keeping our ears wide open!
Scot: Telepathy!
Bill: Seriously though, that's the goal! That's the thrill of real improvisation: the chance that you may crash and burn or paint yourself into a melodic corner. I love it!
Scot: We have learned each other’s sonic libraries and modes of reaction pretty well through the Gutpuppet process... but it is still always surprising!
Ben: Truth be told, I'd say crash and burn occasionally happens even on the material you left on the records, which is interesting in itself! On the first Gutpuppet album I felt you guys didn't have the rhythmic interaction quite nailed at times, but from then on, the interaction has been really impressive.
Bill: Yes, we do crash and burn here and there. I love that tension actually. It makes the beautiful moments that much more beautiful. We both prepare as best we can to play the song at a variety of tempos and feels. I learn both Scot’s parts and my parts, and he does the same. Sometimes at the last minute we've decided, "I'll play your part and you play mine." And that's what's ended up on the record.
Scot: There is a constant obsessive exchange of material and ideas. It’s all about the sonic conversation in the immediate present, all the while exchanging musical roles... Digesting and extrapolating styles, approaches... and groove.
Ben: What I find interesting also is that while it could be conceived as very intellectual or inaccessible music, it doesn't seem to generate the negative reactions from "unaware" listeners that you could expect... In other words, what appeals to the audience in your music, do you think?
Scot: It deals in a new way with an age old combination really... Guitar and harp are deep in the collective music psyche... Throw them together with what is hopefully gripping melodic content, abandoned emotive improvisational exchanges, groove - albeit twisted - and to my ears, you have a fun recipe!
Bill: I think that listeners need a context to appreciate what's going on. If you haven't listened to bluegrass, if you haven't listened to jazz, if you haven't listened to Balkan music you may not get that "one" tune. It's hard to say what appeals to one person and what does not. As the saying goes, "you can't please everyone." So we don't try! We want folks to enjoy what we do, but we also try to please ourselves. If we were trying to get rich or be popular this would be a terrible way to go about it. Nonetheless, I hope there are people out there with similar record collections that get what we are doing and find it fun.
Ben: What has the overall response been to the project ?
Scot: The response has been really fantastic. We have a lot of shows coming up this spring. And that has been in part thanks to the enthusiasm of some other bands, musicians, and club owners.
Bill: Gutpuppet 3, has had a lot of critical reviews. More from reviewers with eclectic tastes who appreciate improvisation than from trad. magazines, though!
Ben: Do you manage to gig a lot ?
Scot: I prefer to gig in spurts...a couple of weeks here and there spread out over the year... It keeps it fresh... I think of them as my personal 'withdrawal and return' tours.
Bill: We have a bunch of gigs coming up in May in California. We're planning a short tour in the midwest during the fall. Living in two different states makes it difficult to play a weekly "sit-down" gig. We have aspirations to tour extensively and at present that's looking good.
Ben: So what's new or different in Gutpuppet 4 ? What can we expect ?
Bill: Some excellent song writing from scot.
Scot: Mucho gracias senor.
Bill: De nada
Ben: Enough backslapping !
Bill: I'll take all the backslaps I can get!
Scot: Gutpuppet 4 is more of everything, I think.
Bill: It's considerably more raucous than the previously 3 records.
Scot: There are more solid grooves, deeper improvised abandon, and more concise compositional work...
Ben: Do you have a street release date for it ?
Bill: Not yet. We're still looking for label interest. Something with better distribution that will allow us to tour more.
Scot: I am really happy with the outcome of Gutpuppet 4 and look forward to it being out there in the fall...
Ben: Do you guys have any other projects on the fire, together or separately ?
Bill: I'm planning a record with Dennis Gruenling in May. It'll include some other heavy weight blues harp players, but you'll have to ask him about that. Mum’s the word! I'm also recording an album of trios. Two harmonicas and bass: that's going to include some of my favourite harp players in awkward situations!
Scot: I play electric slide dobro in Steuart Liebig's Teetot which is recording a CD in May, I have the shows with poet Joel Long I mentioned earlier, and I have some amazing compositions in from different LA composers (Steuart Liebig, Vinny Golia, Shaun Naidoo, Art Jarvinen and Ryan Francesconi) in for a wild experimental CD of slide dobro with string quartet.
Bill: I also started a new funk quintet that will include one of my favourite drummers, Anthony Arvisu, and guitar god Nels Cline. It'll also have the harmonic magic of Ken Lasaine with Eric Holden holding down the bass chair. Also the Mentones have a series of gigs coming up and we will be recording the 3rd record of the trilogy in the fall. And I've been doing more session work lately: I did a date for the movie Red Hour just a couple of days ago!
Ben: You guys are workaholics!
Scot: Obsession is a beautiful thing!
Ben: Indeed ! Did you guys want to add something before we wrap things up ?
Scot: Thanks for the chat Ben! I look forward to chatting in person with you sometime!
Ben: I’ll bring the wine and you’ll tell the story of your retreat in Montana !
Comments